"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Iwan Bogels" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello Dudley,
> >
> > Just curious: Did I ever state I was pushing flight safety ?
>
> No you didn't. That's why I'm taking issue with you. If you had stated a
> flight safety relationship with your work you would have had no problem
> with me but you didn't do that, and you make absolutely no mention of
> any flight safety connection with your work on your site.
> The complete absence of the flight safety issue in your "hobby" of
> showing crash video indicates to me that your interest in filming and
> bringing attention to your work lies in other directions than the flight
> safety issue; something with which I, as an ex- demonstration pilot take
> VERY seriously!
> I've seen this type of exploitation done by both amatuer and
> professional photographers all through my professional career. You have
> cross posted your web site address along with an open invitation to view
> your "work" on at least 5 aviation related newsgroups; steering
> "interested parties" to your web site to partake in your "hobby" of
> filming and showing airplane crashes; all without one single word about
> flight safety.
> No...you're not the least bit interested in flight safety, and you'll
> never sell that line to me in a million years.
> You have every right to use bandwidth to state your case, and I can
> assure you I'll use the same bandwidth to state my answer to your case.
> You and I are natural enemies. I'll never buy what you're selling here.
> Including the jet teams from 2 countries, I've seen 32 of my close
> friends and fellow demonstration pilots die in crashes. I can assure you
> that to me, an airplane crash is a lot more than how you view
> them......what is it you said on your site......a HOBBY!!!
> Sorry; no sale with me anyway.
> Dudley Henriques
> International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
> Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
>
> For personal email, please
> replace the at with what goes there and
> take out the Z's please!
> dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet
>
30GB in bandwidth in 7 hours put a quick stop to it.

Yep, it did. It just showed how many people are interested in the subject.

I understand Dudley's point of view, but I see things differently. No
problem, that's why we live in a free world.

And in case you are in doubt about my intentions, check
http://www.dappa.nl/photos.htm to see the work that I produce myself. I am
pretty sure that an ex-demonstration pilot like Dudley knows how to
appreciate that.

All the best from the Netherlands,

Iwan Bogels
DAPPA



"F.L. Whiteley" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Iwan Bogels" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hello Dudley,
> > >
> > > Just curious: Did I ever state I was pushing flight safety ?
> >
> > No you didn't. That's why I'm taking issue with you. If you had stated a
> > flight safety relationship with your work you would have had no problem
> > with me but you didn't do that, and you make absolutely no mention of
> > any flight safety connection with your work on your site.
> > The complete absence of the flight safety issue in your "hobby" of
> > showing crash video indicates to me that your interest in filming and
> > bringing attention to your work lies in other directions than the flight
> > safety issue; something with which I, as an ex- demonstration pilot take
> > VERY seriously!
> > I've seen this type of exploitation done by both amatuer and
> > professional photographers all through my professional career. You have
> > cross posted your web site address along with an open invitation to view
> > your "work" on at least 5 aviation related newsgroups; steering
> > "interested parties" to your web site to partake in your "hobby" of
> > filming and showing airplane crashes; all without one single word about
> > flight safety.
> > No...you're not the least bit interested in flight safety, and you'll
> > never sell that line to me in a million years.
> > You have every right to use bandwidth to state your case, and I can
> > assure you I'll use the same bandwidth to state my answer to your case.
> > You and I are natural enemies. I'll never buy what you're selling here.
> > Including the jet teams from 2 countries, I've seen 32 of my close
> > friends and fellow demonstration pilots die in crashes. I can assure you
> > that to me, an airplane crash is a lot more than how you view
> > them......what is it you said on your site......a HOBBY!!!
> > Sorry; no sale with me anyway.
> > Dudley Henriques
> > International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
> > Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
> >
> > For personal email, please
> > replace the at with what goes there and
> > take out the Z's please!
> > dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet
> >
> 30GB in bandwidth in 7 hours put a quick stop to it.
>
>

Iwan Bogels wrote:

> Yep, it did. It just showed how many people are interested in the subject.
>
> I understand Dudley's point of view, but I see things differently. No
> problem, that's why we live in a free world.
>
> And in case you are in doubt about my intentions, check
> http://www.dappa.nl/photos.htm to see the work that I produce myself. I am
> pretty sure that an ex-demonstration pilot like Dudley knows how to
> appreciate that.
>
> All the best from the Netherlands,
>
> Iwan Bogels
> DAPPA
>

Iwan, your aviation photography is top notch - really beautiful stuff,
and it is apparent that you have a love for aircraft and aviation. What
I think Dudley takes issue with is context - you provided none. Not in
your original post, and not on your web page.

I think it's important to acknowledge that in some of these accidents
good people lost their lives or were hurt, and that this should be kept
in mind when watching this. If you put this stuff up on your website,
you have to accept that some people will download this and completely
miss the grave implications of what they are watching. So I think it
will be helpful if you provide a framework of why you are sharing these
videos if you don't want people to misinterpret what you are doing. I
happen to think, like Jay Honeck, that there is nothing wrong with
putting up a bunch of aviation crash videos on your web site in and of
itself. But if it's in the context of "here, check out these COOL
videos!!!" you'll upset people, and rightly so. Flesh out some more
context and make your intentions clearer, and you'll do better.

Having said that, in my own aviation video gallery
http://www.avivhod.com/gallery/AviationVideos
I decided that it's too difficult to convey the right message when
posting aviation crash videos, so I avoided posting them. Other people
can do that, but I decided that it's not for me.

Blue Skies,
Aviv

"Aviv Hod" > wrote in
message ...
> Iwan Bogels wrote:
>
> > Yep, it did. It just showed how many people are interested in the
subject.
> >
> > I understand Dudley's point of view, but I see things differently.
No
> > problem, that's why we live in a free world.
> >
> > And in case you are in doubt about my intentions, check
> > http://www.dappa.nl/photos.htm to see the work that I produce
myself. I am
> > pretty sure that an ex-demonstration pilot like Dudley knows how to
> > appreciate that.
> >
> > All the best from the Netherlands,
> >
> > Iwan Bogels
> > DAPPA
> >
>
> Iwan, your aviation photography is top notch - really beautiful stuff,
> and it is apparent that you have a love for aircraft and aviation.
What
> I think Dudley takes issue with is context - you provided none. Not
in
> your original post, and not on your web page.
>
> I think it's important to acknowledge that in some of these accidents
> good people lost their lives or were hurt, and that this should be
kept
> in mind when watching this. If you put this stuff up on your website,
> you have to accept that some people will download this and completely
> miss the grave implications of what they are watching. So I think it
> will be helpful if you provide a framework of why you are sharing
these
> videos if you don't want people to misinterpret what you are doing. I
> happen to think, like Jay Honeck, that there is nothing wrong with
> putting up a bunch of aviation crash videos on your web site in and of
> itself. But if it's in the context of "here, check out these COOL
> videos!!!" you'll upset people, and rightly so. Flesh out some more
> context and make your intentions clearer, and you'll do better.
>
> Having said that, in my own aviation video gallery
> http://www.avivhod.com/gallery/AviationVideos
> I decided that it's too difficult to convey the right message when
> posting aviation crash videos, so I avoided posting them. Other
people
> can do that, but I decided that it's not for me.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Aviv

In my opinion, this is EXACTLY the right attitude to express on this
issue if crash video is to be displayed in a public venue, ESPECIALLY a
pilot's venue. What was lacking in this instance was any reference to
the safety issue, which leaves only the prurient interest in attracting
viewers. You put something like this in front of a pilot who has felt
the consequences of these videos first hand without comment and you can
easily have some issues arise, as they did here.
There is absolutely no negative issue with using photography as a safety
tool, and using photography as an educational tool in the flight safety
context is a long accepted practice that I personally endorse.
The problem occurs when photographers fail to realize, as you have so
correctly stated, that these photographs and videos all involve people,
families, friends, and indeed, human suffering. To simply throw them out
there for the sole purpose of entertainment, or enhancing the
photographer's image within the peer group as having bragging rights to
the pictures is simply unacceptable, especially to those of us who are
involved in the flight safety business.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet